She does make a point worthy of consideration, at least from my point of view. She contends that after giving a child up for adoption that a woman may experience some depression or other emotional maladjustment and may be in need of help to get through the experience of loss and that help is not readily available (at least in a manner that she finds acceptable). It is understandable that there would be some feelings of loss associated with giving a child up for adoption. And if she is correct that help is not readily available I would concur that this is something that should be addressed.
However, AB goes on to make several points that completely miss the obvious heart of the issue.
I have given a baby up for adoption, and I have had an abortion, and while anecdotes are not evidence, I can assert that abortions may or may not cause depression - it certainly did not in me, apart from briefly mourning the path not taken - but adoption? That is an entirely different matter. I don't doubt that there are women who were fine after adoption, and there is emphatically nothing wrong with that or with them; but I want to point out that if we're going to have a seemingly neverending discussion about the sorrow and remorse caused by abortion, then it is about goddamn time that we hear from birth mothers too.
Believe me when I say that of the two choices, it was adoption that nearly destroyed me - and it never ends. The only comparison I have is the death of a loved one. The pain retreats, maybe fades, but it comes right back if I poke at it. Writing this has taken me nearly two weeks. Normally, I can write this amount in about thirty minutes, with bathroom breaks. I started to type, and stopped only to reread, then go wail into my pillow. There is no such thing as "over" with this.
So, AB was far more depressed after giving her child up for adoption than she was after killing her child. First of all, NEWS FLASH: IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU! You were more depressed, but YOUR CHILD WAS ALIVE. I find it ironic in a truly sick way that she says that the only comparison to her emotional pain that she can make is the death of a loved one. Hello! Earth to AB, when you killed your child through abortion there actually was a death And while there is "no such thing as over" with AB's sense of pain and loss after allowing her child to live, when she aborted her other child, life was "over" for that baby.
I freely admit that I don't know what adoptees go through, so I'm going to let others do the talking on that topic (I really hope you do; I only know my side, and I fret and worry and freak out about my child). Again, though, you never see pro-lifers worrying about anything besides forcing a birth. I never see pro-lifers doing anything constructive about adoptees of any age.
AB frets and worries about the child she gave up for adoption, but has no grief for the child she killed. What? And excuse we pro-lifers of the world who worry about something as nonconstructive as life.
But wait, she's not done yet.
And when MRAs aren't busily whining about losing their children in a custody battle, they're whining about how they should have some say in whether a woman is allowed to get an abortion, even when they don't want the child and want it put up for adoption. I can't even imagine the psychological ramifications of being forced into adoption, when it's indescribably hard after a decision made of one's free will.
The psychological ramifications of being forced to let your child live? How about the psychological ramifications of the father who is helpless in the face of you choosing to kill his child? How about the physiological ramifications for the child who is killed in an abortion?
As Male Samizdat said in the comments to my previous post on abortion and adoption: Typical feminist thinking. "It's all about me."
15 comments:
I see you quoted me, Learner. There's hope for you yet. :P
To return to an earlier topic, this is one of the reasons men (like me) paint women with such a broad brush. In the general case, women have difficulty abstracting external events and their meaning from their own perception, particularly when that perception is colored by strong emotion. For women, emotion is meaning. Men, on the other hand, can have strong emotions, but much more successfully consider events and their conequences separately from their emotional impact. Women's emphasis on feeling-as-meaning means that they are overwhelmingly more likely than men to take the "it's all about me" approach to life, a viewpoint reinforced by feminism like rebar in concrete. The devaluing of the masculine in Western culture has largely removed any checks on this tendency.
Well said L!
That woman is nothing but a selfish murdering bitch, with no empathy at all for the baby she kills, nor the helpless father who has no power at all to prevent such an atrocity.
Yes, why is it always about THE WOMAN, and her feelings?.
It may be the womans own body, but the baby she carries does not belong to her.. It belongs to God.
Who will fight for the child who has no voice?
Why does the father have no rights here? That is something that I have never been able to understand.
After all that baby is his child too! It shares half of his genes.
You know, L, sometimes I just want to scream and scream and scream at the injustice and sinfulness of an act such as abortion.
Deep down this woman who had an abortion, knows that she is killing a child, I am sure.
The fact that she doesn't care, is chilling!
If you get the chance L, have a read of this book by Melinda Tankard Reist.." Giving Sorrow Words" It tells of the actual trauma that many women have experienced through abortion.
http://www.amazon.com/Giving-Sorrow-Words-Stories-Abortion/dp/1875989676
I still remember reading of one woman who had said that even though she did not believe in God, she knew in her heart that she had murdered her own child.What she had been told would be a "simple proceedure"
had left her grief stricken and inconsolable..Empty...
There's something that the frickin' feminists don't tell women!
Can't add anything to this, Learner.
And if I were to meet this female on the street, I wouldn't know where to start.
What can I possibly say to someone who'd rather end an inconvenient life than give it up for adoption? Her worldview, values, and morals are so alien to mine that I just haven't the foggiest idea how to connect.
Yes, she is grieving over the life she saw and gave away. But she doesn't grieve one bit about the life she didn't see but elected to terminate. If she fails to see the error in that, then I'm afraid I can't do much for her.
Maybe it's because I'm a man and I just tend to see things in stark moral relief most of the time. In this case, one act ends in death. The other in life. That's what I see. I don't understand how she can't.
You know, it must suck being a woman sometimes...so many shades of gray that you have difficulty telling right from wrong.
Sorry for the ramble. It's late.
MS,
LOL I'm glad to hear there is hope for me yet ;)
I agree that generally speaking men are better at separating fact from feeling than women are (I mentioned that in one of my first posts on this blog I believe). That is one of the reasons I seek out men for advice, because I recognize this tendency to get lost in my feelings within myself.
I believe that God created men and women with qualities to complement eachother. When either the masculine or the feminine is devalued there is an imbalance. I agree that the current devaluation of masculinity (and true feminity) has been disasterous for Western culture.
Kathy,
The pro-abortion rhetoric definately makes me angry. It is a bunch of deceit and talk about everything but what matters- abortion is the killing of an innocent child, period.
Two women I know have told me they had abortions. In both cases they were fed a bunch of lies about how their baby wasn't a life, "it" was just a bunch of cells, and how everyone would be better off if they had the abortion. Both women are deeply remorseful because they know that all of that was just a bunch of lies.
But, don't get me wrong, I am a deep believer in redemption. Abortion, killing your own child, is an inexplicable evil and sin, and women who have abortions are sinners. But, so are the rest of us. Each of us is a sinner in need of redemption. As hard as it is for us in our humanity to understand, Jesus died for the sins of mothers who kill their own children too.
EW,
Feel free to ramble.
As a woman, it is beyond me to understand how the difference between life and death can be ignored. It is beyond me to see any gray areas in this issue the vast majority of the time (less than 1% of abortions follow rape or incest, and another 4% are due to concern for the health of the mother). But what happens, is those few instances where some gray might exist (though I would still say that life has to be the ultimate consideration) get held up as the examples to justify all abortions.
Speaking of stuff that's hard to understand...
"I never see pro-lifers doing anything constructive about adoptees of any age."
Uh, WHAT!? That's just an outright lie on her part, a poor attempt to emphasize her point that instead only shows in no uncertain terms that she's biased and unwilling to consider all facts. Or, to give her some benefit of the doubt, maybe she's just that unfathomably stupid and unable to comprehend the actions of anyone around her.
How about giving the child a home? I know and have known many pro-life couples who have adopted children, not only younger kids but adolescents as well. Wait, maybe that whole "investing your life in that of a child" thing is a foreign concept that has yet to darken the recesses of her brain. Judging from her past actions and apparent willingness to sacrifice more of her offspring at the altar of her own comfort, I'd say that's highly likely.
Better yet, how about working to reverse the societal trends that result in babies either getting killed or given up by their own mothers? Wait, that would require far too much thought and ability to follow some logic than AB possesses I'm sure. After all, if she can't even grasp how providing a home and family for a child could be "constructive" then we can't expect her to see how working toward a broader solution would be.
Anyway, her statement just shows that she's a typical fembot whose ability to think outside of her own emotional cloud is nonexistent. As Kathy said, what a selfish, murdering bitch.
It's me again from the other abortion post.
This woman is either deep in the denial stage of grief or she no longer has a soul.
On the plus side, one more foul American Woman has clearly identified her unworthiness, so at least us nice guys can steer clear of her.
Be sure to extend to her my thanks for branding herself as a selfish skank.
It's going to be real entertaining to watch these women age. By their mid 50's, they ought to be a bunch of real basket cases. I'll bring the popcorn.
Jesse,
I know, that really torqued me off too, especially after knowing what my sister and bro-in-law went through to adopt my niece. You made an excellent point about the bigger picture too. I read about this post on another blog where a woman made the comment, "I work and hope for the day when men are welcome, but are not necessary". Doesn't even occur to them that what they hope for is part of what causes the issues to begin with.
Anonymous,
I'm not sure what to think about her, if she is deeply deceived or in denial, or has wrongly decided that a fetus is not a person. It makes me more sad and angry than entertained though.
BTW, while I welcome comments, even anonymous ones, would you choose a "name" so we know it is "you" talking? If you prefer not to, that's fine too.
The abortion is not the 'entertaining' part for me.
The entertaining part will be to watch an entire generation of slutty women grow old with no one who would touch them with a ten foot pole.
While my heart goes out to decent, sweet, single Christian women who are still single, these ho-bags have no pity from me at all.
I will take great pleasure in watching them grieve for their lost youth and their missed opportunities.
I can hardly wait to see their panicky faces when they hit their fifties and the exciting bad boys start looking for something a little younger.
Of course, they will suddenly begin to want nice stable guys with good jobs, even if we are not exciting.
Then it will be TOO F**KING BAD, sister. Had your chance.
What is really amazing me is how truly free I am from the hooks of these awful women.
For years I hoped that I would find a nice sweet gal to marry. Never happened, I can deal with it.
Pain, and lost opportunities are part of life. So be it.
But these tramps are not going to have the ability to have that level of detachment about the whole issue.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&refer=exclusive&sid=aoh23J2YSp8A
Check out the article. Buncha 'independent women' who are all of a sudden on the hunt for men.
I pity the poor guys that fall for these women.
Sorry for the long rant, but the utter selfishness and foolishness of the person in your original post makes me want to scream.
You can sign me as:
Soulfuric Acid
Better Link
http://tinyurl.com/dxw7b7
"For years I hoped that I would find a nice sweet gal to marry. Never happened, I can deal with it."
SA.. Please don't give up hope.
You never know what is around the corner..
That is a tough question. It takes a certain amount of mental and spiritual energy to maintain 'hope' for something.
I have limited energy these days and even just keeping the lights on in that now very-small room feels costly.
Perhaps it is better to turn of the lights and close the doors on parts of yourself, if only to be able to move on and focus on the parts of life that any hope of bearing fruit.
Just a thought.
SA (interesting name),
My appologies, I didn't mean to imply that you found abortion entertaining (even though what I wrote does read that way), I didn't express myself very well. I did understand that you were referring to that type of woman when she gets older.
I understand about how difficult it can be to live with a hope deferred. I don't know if it is optimism or stupidity that keeps me hoping that one day I will marry, but I do still carry that hope. I hope you will be renewed in your mental and spiritual energy such that you can hope for whatever God has for you.
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